Gowithin.net’s Interview with the Electrifying Gary Renard.
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GoW: How do you forgive the good things that are happening in your life (your illusory life)?
Gary: You don’t really have to forgive the good things. I don’t think that’s the focus of ACIM. It says that you don’t judge, what it means is that you don’t condemn. “Love does not condemn” as ACIM says. The focus of ACIM is on teaching that anger is never justified. It’s on forgiving anything that results in a lack of peace. Anything that is disturbing your peace is disturbing your peace no matter the size (magnitude) of it.
The focus of ACIM is on forgiving the things that upset us, the things that make us uncomfortable, the things that bring up a little or a lot of anger, the things that push our buttons. An example of this is when someone cuts in front of you while you are driving your automobile on the road. As the person cuts in front of you, you angrily respond by calling the driver of the other automobile, who cut you off, a son of a bitch. Well, you have just called yourself a son of a bitch because as ACIM says, “As you see him is how you will see yourself”. That’s why it’s really about self-forgiveness. It’s about concentrating on the things that we have in our own unconscious mind that we secretly believe to be true about ourselves that we denied and projected outward and chose to see out there in the world we made up as an artificial way of escaping from it. The problem with this is that it doesn’t work. All it does is keep everything intact. It’s a kind of recycling in the unconscious mind so that things that do upset us as described in the Course as the “secret sins and hidden hates” that we really have about ourselves we thought they were in another person (event, situation, or other forms).
ACIM helps you remember that this is how you really thought about yourself. And by forgiving that other person, you are forgiven. That’s the focus of ACIM. I think if you do that, then it leads to an experience that it’s all a dream. If you realize it’s all a dream, then you don’t have to forgive the good things other than, in the sense, that you want to develop holy relationships. In that sense, you may have someone who you really care about, somebody who you are in love with and you have a physical relationship with that person (ACIM would not have anything against that). ACIM says that you don’t have to give up your relationships or give up anything in the world. If you think that you have to give it up, then that’s making it just as real to you as if you want it. They are like two sides of the same illusory coin. ACIM says live a normal life, which is why it was given in New York City of all places. ACIM says that the way to salvation isn’t about living in Tibet or on top of a mountaintop somewhere.
The fastest way to salvation is forgiving the things that are in front of your face, things that come up on a given day. ACIM says, these are the lessons that the Holy Spirit wants you to learn (these things that come up in your mind). What happens is that you’ll still have your relationships, jobs, money, or whatever. ACIM points out that it’s not the purpose of the Course to take away the little that you think you have. ACIM is not trying to take those things away from you. What it’s trying to do is transform them ultimately into holier relationships so that you have somebody on the good side of things, who you are happy with. You don’t have to forgive the happy things, but at some point, you have to think of that person for what they really are, which in itself is a form of forgiveness because you are looking past the body (I’m not saying that you are always going to look past the body.), but, what I’m saying is at some point you will look past the body and see them as what they really are, which is spirit, which is immortal and invulnerable. And, if you think of them that way, then that’s how you will think of yourself. That represents a holy relationship.
A holy relationship is where you have forgiven the other person. You might be in a relationship in which there is little to forgive and if you are, then good for you for you are in a rare position. If it is like that for you, don’t worry, there will be someone who or something that will arise for you to practice on. You will not be deprived of your forgiveness opportunities, don’t worry.
{GoW: Yeah, like work. There are many opportunities to forgive there.}
Gary continues: Yeah work is a great place to practice forgiveness and your forgiveness lessons. So in a holy relationship think of the other person as being what they really are (spirit). It doesn’t mean you don’t hang out with them and do things. Continue to do things with them. Just because you may say that you are spirit and they are spirit, so you may as well not do anything. If you follow that particular train of thought, you may have years when you could’ve been doing things that contribute to this whole process for everybody. Maybe you want to communicate the Holy Spirit’s message to someone in some way so you won’t feel guilty for doing that. Should you feel guilty for using your body as a communication tool for the Holy Spirit? I don’t think so.I think ACIM is clear when it appoints you. Jesus says in the Workbook to you, “that I am among the ministers of God, you are appointed now”. So, if you do the Course’s Workbook, you are appointed as one of Jesus’ ministers. It doesn’t mean it has to be a traditional ministry that tries to save souls and beat on the drum that you’re holier than thou or ask for donations. There’s nothing wrong with that, but, it can go to extremes where cults start and take people’s homes and take all of their money. Cults can lead down a slippery slope and lead to lots of problems. Be careful to stick to the original message of ACIM to avoid unnecessary things like that.
GoW: Can someone practice the principles of the Course via your books and not have to read and study the Course itself?
Gary: No. I would say at some point it’s essential for students of ACIM to do the entire Workbook of ACIM. Jesus says at the intro of the Workbook that, “an untrained mind can accomplish nothing”. That’s quite a statement in that it’s saying that 99.999% of all the people of the world including those practicing spirituality are accomplishing nothing. The reason for that is that people do not understand the mechanical nature of the mind. They think they are so individualistic and cool. Well, they really think they are right. How can you be cool if you are not right and think someone else is wrong? You must be cool and they must be uncool. If you are cool, they can’t be cool too. Somebody else must not be cool. What you are saying (as the cool person) is that I’m right and you are wrong. That kind of thinking is a representation of the mechanical nature of the mind, which even if it is very subtle at times, is really engaging in automatic judgement. People don’t realize that the mind is judging automatically. It’s like a machine. You can’t walk down the street without pissing someone off. People get angry so easily. They are in a reactive state. That’s because the mind judges automatically because the ego survives that way.
Now, I should point out that Buddhism, especially the aspect of Buddhism that emphasizes the mind, Mahayana Buddhism, has a lot in common with ACIM. ACIM has a lot in common with that kind of Buddhism than with Christianity. It may use Christian terminology because it speaks to a Western audience. You notice that some of the terms in ACIM terminology don’t mean the same as some of the words do in Christianity. So you have ACIM and Jesus speaking to a Western audience in an Eastern way of thinking about things. Both Buddhism and ACIM say the same thing about judgement. Both say the ego cannot survive without judgement. That’s a very Buddhist statement. Buddha undid his ego by practicing complete non-judgement. He had no judgement of other people (situations, events and other forms). That’s not an easy trick (chore). He recognized the automatic nature of the mind and was seeking to overcome that. What Jesus did 2000 years ago and is still doing via A Course in Miracles is that he added a dimension to what Buddha was doing. Buddha practiced non-judgement. What Jesus did was added something to that. He became more proactive about practicing non-judgement. Not only did he exercise total non-judgement, but also, he changed the way that he looked at other people. You can say he replaced the ego thought system with the thought system of the Holy Spirit. He used a thought system that was proactive in changing the way that he looked at others and that accelerated the process. The reason he did it is because he understood that what that would do is lead back to God. He added the dimension of God to the whole thing that we don’t find in Buddhism. It doesn’t mean that it was never there in Buddhism. We don’t know everything that Buddha said thousands of years ago. We don’t know how Buddha felt about God. It’s possible that his followers did not like God or talking about God. It’s possible that Buddha did talk about God. Just like we don’t have all the exact words from Jesus spoke 2000 years ago, we don’t have all of Buddha’s words as well. We do know from the Gospels of 2000 years ago and from ACIM that Jesus, as a Jewish mystic, had this incredible love for God and gave us a perfect vision of God. He said in ACIM that God is really perfect love and that’s where we are trying to open up to. The way to undo the separation and open up to love is to undo the false you. By undoing the false you, ACIM says that “salvation is undoing, the real you is all that’s left”. We don’t have to worry about being loved. We don’t have to worry about being God. What we want is to get rid of the parts that aren’t God. Getting rid of the false parts. If you undo that, then the truth of God and who you really are (love and spirit) will be the only thing left.